Classification of the Russianspeakings of Estonia
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The post-Soviet Government of Estonia describes the Estonian Russianspeakings as recently arrived emigrantes like the Mussulmans in Germany or the Mexicans in the USA, hiding contemporarily the real situation.
The Russianspeakings of Estonia can be devided into following groups:
1. Native ethnic Estonians, mostly coming from mixed families, who chose the Russian as a basic language and lost the capacity to speak Estonian well, mostly in the Soviet time;
2. Native ethnic Russianspeaking Estonians who have been living in Estonia during centuries and even thousends years, and ethnic Russians who was emigrated in Estonia centuries ago; Starovery – the Russian Old Believers - an Estonian offically ricognized national minority – are in this group;
3. Russians who transferred into Estonia in the time of the Russian Empire when Estonia was a part of the Empire (tsar Pjotr I bought Estonia from Svezia), and their descendants;
4. Ehtnic Russians and other nationalities of the former Soviet Union who emigrated into Estonia in the Soviet time, on request and uder the order of the Estonian and the USSR Government, and their descendants. This category is a victim of the Soviet/Communism regim – of the Estonian, local national and centralized USSR Governments;
5. Ehtnic Russians and other nationalities of the former Soviet Union who emigrated into Estonia by their own will, and their descendants. In the post-Soviet time this category fled from Estonia. This category is a little bit victim of the socialism/communism: if Estonia were not entered into the USSR, they had never arrived in Estonia;
6. Russians and Russianspeakings who is emigrated in Estonia in the post-soviet time. This category can be compared with today’s European emigrants.
Only the last category can be described as "muulased" (a complex word translated from Estonian means "the others", it can have some nuances of the meaning: simply the others - people born/came in/from another part – people of another land - citizens of other countries) – a term used by the Estonian Government to describe all the Russianspeakings of Estonia.
Even if the Old Believers are oficially ricognized as a national minority and the Government finances its development, Russian is non ricognized as the second State’s language. So, the rights and the freedoms of the Old Believers are violated.
The people came in Estonia in the Soviet time are just naturalized in according with the Soviet-time rules, now the today’s Government ask these people to naturalize for the second time and with new rules. People take it as denigration of their dignity.
The Russianspeaking Estonian people is the second state-forming people in Estonia, but the Estonian Government hides this fact from the public opinion of the European Union, lying that the Russianspeakings are only recently arrived. The refusal to recognize the existance of this second state-forming people attests the policy of discrimination, marginalization, segregation and apartheid of the Russianspeakings of Estonia (more details in the future).
The most of the Rapports of violation of the human rights in Estonia don’t pay the neccesary attention to the classification of the Russianspeakings and to fact the Russianspeakings are the second state-forming and historical people in Estonia.
The Old Believers’ official site: www.starover.ee (in English, Estonian and Russian).
A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OLD BELIEVERS (from the official site): "Before speaking of the history of the Old Belief in Estonia, one should turn to the history of the Russian Church. Having adopted the Christian Orthodox faith from the Byzantine Greeks during the rule of the Grand Prince Vladimir in 988, the Russians held it sacred until the mid-16th century: they considered it their inviolable national sacred possession. The Russians adopted the Greek forms of divine service, rites, customs and churchdom. After Patriarch Nikon had come to power in 1653, reformation of the Russian Orthodox Church began (mainly for political reasons and because of patriarch's personal ambitions). The reforms included textual correction of the liturgical books, change of rites, abolition of down-to-earth bows, the manner of crossing oneself with three instead of two fingers, etc. The government supported persecution of the disobedients by laws and military power. The clergy that resisted reforms was exterminated. Old Believers were cruelly persecuted, exiled, tortured and executed all over Russia. Their churches, icons and homes were burnt down. They took refuge abroad, in the Baltic and even in America. After the schism, the Old Believers split up into several branches (concords). "Pomortsy" (Pomorians) and "Fedoseevtsy" (Fedoseyans) found shelter in Estonia. Enemies of Old Believers called them "raskolniki", whereas Old Believers called themselves "starovery". After the Tsar's edict of toleration (April 17, 1905), the status of Old Believers and the name "Old Believers" (for the first time in the Catherine the Great's edict of August 13, 1785) were legitimized" (RUSSIAN OLD BELIEVERS IN ESTONIA Ponomariova.G., Translator: Grishakova.M.). For detail information see at the site.
Here below there are some photos from the site www.starover.ee .
Prichiudje - some image of the places nearby Peipsi / Chiudskoje lake where the Old Believers mostly live:








Comments
In 1934, "Russianspeakings" were 9 percent of the population. In 1959, 20 percent. In 1989, 30 percent. Today, back down to 25 percent.
You seriously pretend that someone that moved to Estonia in 1988 is a "native inhabitant" of that country. What a joke!!!! That would mean that, if there's a revolution in Estonia tomorrow, all current immigrants would become indigenous over night!
Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
I'm with you Olga, we colonialists need to stick together. Did you know we British also have compatriot Englishspeakings who are historical peoples of India, Pakistan, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Honk Kong, Singapore, etc, and also suffer repression in having to learn the local languages in those countries. I tell you Olga, the fall of the British Empire is the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century.
The word is "Russophone", not Russianspeakings.
What nice propaganda blog you have here
Why did you not post here how many russians was here before 130's ? And how many after second world war?
Why dont you post here, that Estonians are not allowed to walk around in Estonia in many parts of the Estonia because they would get beaten up & in the end police would arrest them that they (estonian) was doing wrong because they walk around whit estonian flag in arias where russians live (russians in estonia, whit estonian passports many of them).
If people in russia are also afraid to have russian stickers or other nationalistic symbols on their cars or jackets?
No, in russia they kill people on streets who are not russian native people, estimated 70-100 murders in this year. But most of the murders are not counted because they will be recorded as "just a fight" etc.
There is no other country where they would have so huge amount nazis who are supported by goverment as in russia, where they have nazi pary even. No surprise they was suported by nashis / kremel (putin).
just ... (an imprecation eliminated) when people like that try to relate estonians to nazism. i know personally many skinheads in estonia and they do not have any respect for hitler.
Waffa,
The links you provided have been disabled. Four out of three were leading to You Tube content not related to the discussion.
Thank you for your understanding.
OLé
(cafebabel.com Community Editor)
1. About numbers
In 1920 the Estonification started in Estonia – persons with non-Estonian name were given Estonian names. In the soviet time the politics of mixing of the peoples of the former Soviet Union was applied. There was a Russification else – some Estonians took Russian names. In 1991 the new Estonification started – the most famous person who cahnged the name is an Ukrainian named now Trivimi Velliste. Is this man counted today as an Ukrainian or as an Estonian???
In 1934 a part of Russian(speaking)s of Estonia was just Estonificated.
The numbers can tell us a lot, but they mist be analized.
2. Colonialism.
Colony is a territory different of home land and having the militar, juridic, political, and economic ties with the home land.
The Russian (Slav) tribes and antique Russians arrived first into some territories of today’s Estonia, for example into Peipsi lake shore. The Estonians arrived later. Some tribes of Latvia arrived first into some south territory of Estonia. Do You mean the Estonians are the colonists or occupayers in this case?
A part of the territory of Estonia is a home land for Russianspeaking peoples – do You mean they should call the Estonians “colonists” or “occupyers”? They should begin to fight for independence of Estonian occupyer or colonists?
Such reasoning, aimed to insult and injure, are non constuctive. Insults, injuries and offences against Russia and the Russian people were a reason why Estonia lost Petseri after the crash of the USSR.
3. Immigrants/emigrants and their assimilation/integration
The emigrants came in Estonia in the late Soviet period mostly fled from Estonia after the USSR crashing. It was possible to call them “muulased” or “vòòrad” in 1990 - 2000, paying attention that it was an internal migration – Estonia entered into the USSR by good will and by free choice of President-dictator Pàts, his Government, and the Estonians who voted. Today the USSR time “immigrants” are just assimilated (even if they don’t want recognize this fact) and integrated into the Estonian community or into the segregated part of the Estonian community. Their descendants are just born in Estonia.
If Estonia were not entered into the USSR these people didn’t come in Estonia, You should define the names of the Soviet governors (Estonians first) who wanted these people to come in Estonia.
Descendants in 2,3, o 4 generations of the people arrived in Estonia in the Soviet time are more Estonian than the today’s Estonian President and some Estonian politicians.
“Muulased” and “vòòrad” (used in Estonian for expressing “foreigners”)are not nice words for immigrants besause these words have a dengrative nuances.
4. Purity of the blood
If we begin to analize who can be called Estonian and who can’t, who is “muulane” or “vòòras” or “immigrant” or “emigrant” we must begin to analize the purity of the blood. And maybe we shall see that the “Estonians”, who hate Russianspeakings, are not absolutely Estonians…
These are not nice reasonnings, it’s more better to be constructive and respect other persons and peoples.
See Svitzerland – there are 4 state languages, including Roman – an antique language which is not used today, but even today it is an official language when someone uses it. Nobody calls “colonialists”, “occupyiers” the Italians of Ticino (one region of Svitzerland), the French of Geneva, the French of Valle d’Aosta (Italy), the Deutch of Trentino (Italy)… The problems of the discussed territories are solved with respect and dignity.
I think it is a bit funny that certain segments of the Estonian Russian community beg to be institutionalized. It is funny because even if Russian were an official language in Estonia, on equal footing with Estonian, their situation would be the same.
They would still need Estonian in the workplace; it still would be the primary public language. Little would actually change. School reform would still be necessary.
Plus, if you are a Russophone in Estonia, you have access not only to Russian media, but local Estonian Russian media. Russian is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world, and it is one of the world's "official" languages -- at the United Nations, at least. 20 percent of Estonian schools operate in the Russian language. They will never lose their language. Ever. Linguistics think its impossible.
In this scenario, it seems superfluous to make Russian an official language on par with Estonian in the Estonian state. You might as well make English an official language -- why and what for -- the foreign ministry already makes most of its statements available in English anyway! Quebec might as well make English an official language. But why? It's a useless gesture.
So people are not actually seeking rights, but status. They just want the status of having rights, even if they are treated exactly the same afterward as they were before. Fine -- adopt the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages. Even if those hundreds of thousands of Soviet settlers hadn't crossed the border into Estonia during the Soviet era, the Estonian government probably would have adopted that charter.
I actually think a bilingual state is also unfair to other linguistic minorities. It is unfair to force a second language on third and fourth minorities. Estonian Ukrainians, Finns, Swedes, Germans and others also deserve rights. Their languages should also be protected by the charter, as it is in Sweden, where both big languages, like Finnish, and smaller languages, like Romani, are protected.
That seems the optimal solution. Amnesty International agrees with me.
Helga, did you leave school at a young age? You seem very ignorant.
The earliest slavic tribe in the region where the Krivichs, who lived in eastern Latvia since 6th century. At that time Finnic tribes closely related to Estonians such as Ingrians and Votes (who are almost extinct now) covered all the territory from the eastern side of Narva and Lake Peipsi to the area of St Petersburg, while Setos covered the area south and Estonians covered the west.
Russians came from the south around 1558 and attempted to conquer the Estonians, Ingrians and Votes but Sweden pushed back. Only in 17th Century did the Old Believers arrive on the Peipsi shore with the permission of the Swedish who controlled Estonia then.
True colonialism began when Russia pushed Sweden out in the 18th century and attempted to Russify Estonians, Ingrians and Votes. Thank God that Estonia found indpendence in 1920, the unlucky Ingrians and Votes who remained in Soviet Russia were genocided.
During Soviet occupation all Estonians were pushed out from Narva and Ida Viru country and Russian settlers were moved in.
I agree with Helga that agitating a second state language is the best way to establish an apartheid system.
Just like we Dutch settlers wanted to keep our own language and culture in South Africa and keep ourselves separate from the blacks, I can understand why Russian settlers like Helga want to keep the Russian "whites" seperate from the Estonian "blacks".
Fight integration!
Helga, hopefully you'll pay attention to what History teacher is saying and learn some history. Including to what applies to your attempts in comparing Estonia's situation with Switzerland - a comparison that can be called pathetic at best, or openly demagogic at least. Unfortunately, for many Russians (thankfully, not all, though) this problem can be solved "with respect and dignity" only when everybody speaks Russian and they don't have to learn the local language.
In addition, check the meaning of the word "colonialism" (which you didn't seem to be sure of). This is the definition from Encyclopedia Britannica, and let's check how much it applies to Russia:
"Control by one power over a dependent area or people [check]. The purposes of colonialism include economic exploitation of the colony's natural resources [check], creation of new markets for the colonizer [check], and extension of the colonizer's way of life beyond its national borders [check]."
Remarkably, the definition corresponds 100% to Russia both during the Czars' times, during the Soviet time, as well as today.
Also, you said:
"Descendants in 2,3, o 4 generations of the people arrived in Estonia in the Soviet time are more Estonian than the today’s Estonian President and some Estonian politicians."
So, are you saying that "more Estonian" means not wanting to learn and speak the Estonian language, accepting the flag of Russia rather that of Estonia, etc?
And, of course, everything is topped by this:
"Estonia entered into the USSR by good will and by free choice".
Just as well you could have said that victims of rape get raped by "free choice", because they didn't kick and scream enough.
Well, I truly wish you not to experience such "free choice".
http://www.hot.ee/vvliit/inglis_1.h...
Here is an article that totally contradicts the outrageous lies put forward by 'helga' . It has been written (in English) by an Estonian of Estonian descent who lived through WW2 and the German and Russian occupations - and explains well why most real Estonians (70-80%) would side with the Germans rather than the Russians at that time.
Obviously one will appreciate that the authors insights were arrived at through having lived through the events .
This is in marked contrast to people such as the Gen X blogger 'Helga' - who has only read about and fantasised on the actual conditions . And who for some strange reason seems to suggest that Estonia would have been better off being annexed by Russia and enjoying the Rusian utiopia instead of having been allowed the freedom of striking out on its own path..
There is a BIG difference between having insight through life experience and having the pretension to wisdom through reading books.
TO GIUSTINO
The English are not a state-forming people of Estonia and have not the common history with Estonia and the Estonian people.
The Russianspeaking of Estonia are living in Estonia about thousend years and are the historical people here. The Estonian culture are mixed with Russian culture, Estonia is a neigbour of Russia. You can not compare Estonian Russian(speaking)s with the English, it's a little bit absurd, as the comparing between recently arrived "other linguistic minorities" and ancient Estonian Russian minority is.
The Russian(speaking)s don't need Estonian in the workplace because we have the sistem of apartheid in Estonia: Estonianspeaking persons with non-Estonian roots are not allowed to workplace reserved to the Estonians with right status. Russian(speaking)s have the workplaces for Russianspeakings and the Estonians have the workplaces for themselves only, sometime some exception happens. Russian(speaking)s have no contacts with Estonianspeakings, they see the Estonians only from Language Inspection when they comes to fine.
Very great quantity of persons don't know Estonian and the Estonian state are not capable to offer the manuals (taday manulas are made in sistem "guess the grammar rules by oneself), free courses don't exist, courses for payment are made by low-level teachers, the state schools fo Rusian(speaking)s use the sistem of psycological abuse on children instead teaching Estonian.
Local media in Russian is a parody to serious media, they often use bad Russian and make grammar and style mistakes. The jounalist are often too young, without enough experience. They use prevalently hard USA propaganda and not free and democratic information. Who will see such a media?
In the Soviet time Estonian was a state language together with the Russian language, it was not repressed.
Step by step I shall descrive all the situation in detail.
Here is a link to a blog that tells about apartheid in Estonia: http://pronssisoturi.blogspot.com/ .
The Amnesty Internation rapport about Estonia: http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Re... says: "Estonia's human rights record came under criticism from both the council of Europe Commissioner for Human Rights and the UN Committee against Torture (CAT)". The situation of antique Russianspeaking Estonians is not seen as separate question.
Your opinion is based on unsuffcient information, my blog is created with aim to give more information contrastinf deceiption and fauls of the Estonian Government's propaganda.
Non-recognition of Russian as the second State language is a hard violation of the basic rights of the origin Russianspeaking Estonians (Estonian-blood Russophones). I have done the classification to expane the difference, why do You pay attention only to the Soviet time immigrants?
TO HISTORY TEACHER
See the blog www.starover.ee - even there You can inform You that the Russian (Slaves) came in Estonia in about XI ciecle.
You should know that the Setos had been living mixed with Russians: one house Estonian and the next Russian.
Old Beleivers were persecuted by Sweden Government - see their site.
You are under nick because You know that Your saying are not truth and You know perfectly it.
To n/a
And how You avaluate the help given to Estonia from Russia to develop it? Why the Estonian Government (and not the Estonians) appreciates the Sveden time's help and foget the Russian time's help? Don't You see that even today the Government ask for help all around the world? Who is toady's colonialist of Estonia? Say it openly! Are You capable to do it?
In the Soviet time the level of life in Estonia was avaluated at the same level with Danmark (FBI report) and now we have a very poor country with great problems.
TO SOLAR
The link You gave is a JUSTIFICATION of a shamful fact and not the real history. The real history comprends the collaboration with Russian Bolshevics in 1920 and its consequences, the Fashist regim of Pàts of 1934-1940, the crimes of the Pàts regime... Only some Forest Brothers were the real fighters for Estonia, not the persons who ambraced the Hitler's ideology.
The WWII was a tragedy for the Estonian people, the negative abd shameful events must be accepted with sadness and conciousness and not to be glorified or justified, deceived or falsifyed.
In the German Nazis Army were only 8o ooo estonians, and not 7o-80%.
From they only 20 000 did it voluntarily.
After the war the civil Estonians denounced the Estonians who was in the German Army and the Forest Brothers to Soviet Authorities.
Helga writes:
".......The link You gave is a JUSTIFICATION of a shamful fact and not the real history."
That is purely your opinion. Throughout this blog you have shown your biases very clearly. For example when you posted pictures of actors in Nazi uniforms - you presented them as being current day Estonian Nazis. You deliberately left out the fact that they were people presenting a play.
In many of your posts you have demonstrated that you are quite capable of deliberately distorting a situation to persuade people that something false is true.
So, in future, please preface statements with 'In my opinion..." rather than pretending they are facts.
".... ... Only some Forest Brothers were the real fighters for Estonia, not the persons who ambraced the Hitler's ideology."
If you re-read the article - you might possiby be perceptive enough to realise the main point - which was that Estonians at that time chose to fight with the Germans against the Soviet Army - because it was the lesser of two evils.
Do you doubt that if they were given the choice at that time they would have liked to remain neutral?
Helga continues:
"......The WWII was a tragedy for the Estonian people, the negative abd shameful events must be accepted with sadness and conciousness and not to be glorified or justified, deceived or falsifyed...."
I totally agree with that statement. I also totally agree with this one:
"......The SOVIET OCCUPATION was a tragedy for the Estonian people, the negative and shameful events must be accepted with sadness and consciousness and not to be glorified or justified, deceived or falsified...."
"And how You avaluate the help given to Estonia from Russia to develop it?" -- Helga
I evaluate it similar to Josef Fritzl, the man in Austria who was feeding his daughter, yet at the same time holding her hostage and constantly raping her. I think the analogy is fair enough. Would you praise him for "taking care of and helping" his daughter? I hope not, but according to your logic, one should.
"Who is toady's colonialist of Estonia? Say it openly! Are You capable to do it?" -- Helga
Luckily, nobody. But Kremlin (according to many statements of high politicians and military personnel) would like that situation to be changed.
"In the Soviet time the level of life in Estonia was avaluated at the same level with Danmark (FBI report) and now we have a very poor country with great problems." -- Helga
Are you trying to kid only your readers, or yourself, too? Do you really not realize that the economic problems Estonia has experienced are a direct result of Soviet (that is, Kremlin's) "management" (or rather, mismanagement) of economy?
Besides, you consider "Estonia to be a very poor country with great problems"? In that case you should be true to your statements and declare Russia along with over half of all other countries to be just a garbage dump.
Helga, your claim that Russians are a "historical people living in Estonia for a thousand years" is nonsense. Yaroslav managed to capture a local Estonian fort in Tartu region in 1030, and extorted money from the local population for 30 years before the Estonians burned down his fort and kicked out the Russians in 1063, not to return until nearly 500 years later in 1558, to be kicked out again by the Swedes a few years later, until Peter returned in 1721 who kept German as the official language until 1889 when Russification was attempted but abandoned soon afterwards.
Claiming that the Russian language should have official status because Russians are a "state forming people" is as nonsensical as claiming the French language should be an official language of England because French speaking William the Conqueror invaded and occupied England in 1066. While The French culture is mixed with English culture, and England is a neigbour of France, all those French speaking settlers that arrived in 1066 and after, all eventually assimilated and all speak English today.
The only apartheid that exists in Estonia is in your own head. Forget your formerly privileged status as colonial masters of the Estonia, learn the local language and make an effort to integrate yourself into Estonian society, and life will be good.
History aside, it is guaranteed that Estonian Russian speakers will stay in Estonia, they will keep speaking Russian and they will satisfy with nothing less than full equal rights - no one ever agrees to less than that.
So there's no escape for Estonians and Russains to see one another, hear one another and argue with one another for the near and the far future.
Perhaps you can also like one another. I for one, speaking neither Estonian nor Russian, love Arvo Pärt.
South Africa is a point of reference for many here. It is widely agreed that Apartheid was the most notorious racist oppression since the Nazis. Enforcing it on the black was done in such a brutal murderous way that no claim about Soviet Oppression can match.
Post apartheid South Africa is a country facing tremendous problems - poverty, AIDS, immigration from war stricken African countries, and more.
White South Africans, who colonized the country and were the beneficiaries (in the short run) of racial discrimination, are not in power these days. However, they are considered to be an integral part of the nation. Their languages are recognized as official languages, just like local African languages.
Why can that not be the case with Russians in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?
The motto of the national liberation movement here has always been "One man one vote" - regardless of language, race, religion, skin colour, ethnicity. This principle is now applied. It holds naturally for all - including citizens who hold citizenship of other countries.
"One man one vote" - why can that not be the case in Estonia?
Long ago, monuments were erected for Cecil Rhodes and Hendrik Verwoert, champions of British Imperialism and of Fascist Apartheid. The monuments are still standing here, even if the persona them selves are not seen as heroes any more.
The reason for that is that removing these statues might provoke inter-racial tension - something that no-one wants to see here.
Wouldn't this be a good enough reason to keep one statue in Tallinn in place?
After all, if all goes well, both Russian and Estonian will be heard in Tallinn for many years to come.
To: Communist from South Africa
"Enforcing [Apartheid] on the black was done in such a brutal murderous way that no claim about Soviet Oppression can match".
I don't know that much about the Apartheid, but I doubt millions upon millions of people, including entire nations, in South Africa were killed or exiled, including to places (in Siberia) where conditions can be compared almost to those in North Pole. Arguably, even Hitler's Nazism wasn't as bad, since Moscow's style communism was responsible for even more death and tortures.
"Their languages are recognized as official languages, just like local African languages. Why can that not be the case with Russians in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?"
See, each of the Baltic states have only one main language (a different situation than in Africa), and nobody tries to deprive minorities of keeping their own language and customs, but the problem is that there is one minority, Russians, of whom many (not all, though) do not want to learn Estonian, or Latvian. They must think of themselves more superior (I cannot find any other reason why they would act this way), and want nothing less than everybody else learning their language.
This is where the problem is with language. If a group of Estonians moved to Russia and started to demand that people around them had to speak Estonian, they'd get beaten up pretty soon.
"One man one vote - why can that not be the case in Estonia?"
But it is, every citizen of Estonia can vote. Many Russians have become citizens, but for some reason there are those who are apparently either too "superior" or just too dumb, so they just whine about some mystical "human rights" abuses.
"Wouldn't this be a good enough reason to keep one statue in Tallinn in place?"
No! The statue was used by several radical elements to stir up Russians' hatred against the country they lived in. It was no forgotten monument, but an actively used platform of propaganda. Should a statue of Hitler be allowed in Jerusalem?
Communist from South Africa amongst other things, correctly states that his country s facing tremendous problems.
That is certainly the case :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_...
So hats off to him for having the grit to stay there - but he does that in contrast to hundreds of thousands of whites (and others) who have fled for other lands (Canada, the US, Asutralia and NZ) where the 'one man, one vote' policy does not continually deliver a government of racist former 'freedom fighters' who are totally inept at running government. Perhaps these people were a little more circumspect and realise that what happens to whites in Zimbabwe could arguably reoccur in SA.
South Africa is fast becoming a basket case and faces seemingly insurmountable problems (a major one being AIDS).
So I cope Communist from South Africa is not holding up his country as an exemplar for what should be done in the Estonia / Russia situation (which is similar to Latvia/Russia, Lithuania/Russia etc)
Also, it should be remembered that many Russian towns and cities have taken down and removed their statues to Soviet pseudo deities such as Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky, - without any uprising from the local citizenry? So why so much fuss when a sovereign state decides to relocate(notice , not 'destroy') a statue from an inappropriate location in its capital city?
Is there something inherently wrong with that? Or was the fuss really about Russia's loss of face in that it could no longer dictate what can and can't be done in Estonia?
Russia, the former colonial master, is still intent on punishing Estonia, of course all the while denying this.
Thanks for your post. I learnt a lot, despite I'm not agree with your point of view, but I think it's important knowing and understanding the others version, because always you can find some reason in others point of view.